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In Depth with 4A Games Oles Shishkovtsov on Last Lights Improved 4A Engine

Discussion in 'Metro: Last Light General Discussion' started by Forkinator, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Forkinator

    Forkinator Active Member

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    Not sure if this is common knowledge but I found this article interesting. Taken from:

    pcgameshardware.com/aid,852240/Metro-Last-Light-PC-aims-for-the-technology-throne-Developer-talks-about-DirectX-11-Tessellation-GPU-Physx-und-Co/News/



    With Metro 2033 the ukrainian developer 4A Games pushed the limits of graphics. The prequel to Metro 2003, Last Light, aims for the technology throne again. PC Games Hardware had the chance to talk with Oles Shishkovtsov, Chief Technology Officer at 4A Game


    4A Games talks tech: PC Games Hardware spoke to Oles Shishkovtsov, CTO at 4A Games, to give you information about Metro Last Light's rendering technology. Last Light is the successor of the 2010 game Metro 2033 that already made use of DirectX 11 and Tessellation, GPU Physx, 3D Vision and Morphological Anti-Aliasing. Metro Last Light refines all of these features - but read for yourself:

    PC Games Hardware: Content-wise Metro Last Light will be a prequel of the story presented in Metro 2033 as far as we know. On the technical side have you made enhancements, improvements modifications or revisions you can explain to us?

    Oles Shishkovtsov: In general we have greatly improved the looks of outdoor locations, monsters, humans, lighting model (including precise reflections), cinematic effects like DOF, color corrections, etc. The full list would be several pages long …

    PC Games Hardware: Will you keep the strategy that the PC version will look better and will allow technical/visual features that cannot be realized with console Hardware, e.g. higher texture resolution and better lighting? Can we once again expect Multisampling and Analytical Antialiasing in the PC version?

    Oles Shishkovtsov: Definitely. The PC version will have much better visuals than before. And antialiasing is much much better than before (smile).

    PC Games Hardware: Do you try to optimize the technology used in Metro Last Light for multithreading? If this is the case can you go into detail here: What different engine modules can be calculated in a separate thread? How does the work job structure look like? Do you use a thread scheduler? How do you handle the fact that in Metro 2033 the GPU had a very heavy workload?

    Oles Shishkovtsov: Metro 2033 was already heavily multithreaded, which resulted in 100% load on all cores unless we are GPU bound. We don't run different modules on different threads because that's the inherently non-scalable way. Instead we use tasks (or jobs) and in this way 2033 (and Last Light) can scale to insane amount of cores (although we have only tested up to 16 cores/threads). During heavy workloads we can have several thousand of tasks per frame, which are spawned in a tree-like fashion, without any dependencies. There is no such thing as special thread scheduler, - worker threads just steal and execute any task they can.

    PC Games Hardware: It was rumored that Metro Last Light will also offer support for 3D Vision/stereoscopic 3D support. If yes how will you handle the problem that 3D visuals could demand a lot of GPU power? - keeping in mind that especially the DX11 visuals in Metro 2033 could only be rendered by high end video cards.

    Oles Shishkovtsov: As you probably know, 2033 shipped already supporting Nvidia 3D Stereo. And it was the only game of that time which was designed with 3D in mind resulting in highest possible "3D Vision Ready" status. Last Light improved and tuned 3D perception to new levels. We believe that it will be in a class of its own (smile).

    PC Games Hardware: You keep the support for GPU PhysX in Metro Last Light. If so can we expect some improvements or enhancements compared to Metro 2033 (e.g. soft bodies, debris, and destructible environments)? What graphics card do you recommend for maxed details in Full HD with Antialiasing? An upcoming Nvidia Kepler-based Geforce for example? ;-)

    Oles Shishkovtsov: Yes, you can expect a lot of improvements, especially in destruction and debris. The upcoming Geforce cards will be fully supported.

    PC Games Hardware: When benchmarking Metro 2033 we found out that the engine utilized more than four cores of multicore CPUs if we were using the advanced PhysX effects on CPU, so you are utilizing Nvidias PhysX SDK 3.x? Will all the advanced PhysX effects only be available in PC version?

    Oles Shishkovtsov: That's the common misconception that PhysX 2.X cannot be multithreaded. Actually it is internally designed to be multithreaded! The only thing – it takes some programmer time to enable that multi-threading (actually task generation), mostly to integrate with engine task-model and ensure proper load-balancing. So, 2033 used PhysX 2.8.3, and Last Light uses similar, a slightly modified version at the time of writing. And yes, advanced PhysX effects will be available only on PC.

    PC Games Hardware: As above mentioned in Metro 2033 especially the DX11 render path took even high end cards to their limit of performance. Have you as a consequence of this tried to optimize the graphics part of the engine for speeding up the rendering with the help of DX11 features (e.g. computer shader or driver multithreading)? Can you already tell us if Metro Last Light will offer new DX11-Features that were not integrated in the renderer of the predecessor? Can you give us an overview which visual features will be only rendered with DX11?

    Oles Shishkovtsov: We utilized compute shaders in one more place (2033 already used compute shaders). Regarding the performance, the interesting thing is that we have improved graphics in almost all places, but the performance is still on 2033-level, and even better in many places. Actually, until you turn on tessellation/displacement it is the same. That's because a lot more content is tessellated and displaced comparing to 2033. Regarding features, I'd rather say that we improved all the features like added Bokeh for DOF, implemented physically based SSAO or much better reflections.

    PC Games Hardware: In Metro 2033 you can choose between DX9, DX10 and of course DX11. What visual and performance differences exist among these APIs and which effects are possible or not? Last but not least: Please tell us your favorite optical highlight.

    Oles Shishkovtsov: DX9 mode disables a lot of stuff, and it is fastest by default. But if you turn off all API specific effects, all APIs will run at similar framerates on equal hardware, except that DX11 will be slightly faster. Regarding the effects, around 50% of all improvements will be visible in DX9 mode, +30% in DX10 and another +20% in DX11.
     
    #1 Forkinator, Jan 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2013
  2. majnu

    majnu Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this, but I do wish Oles did go several pages long explaining the technical details. :D
     
  3. Bamul

    Bamul S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
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    Not completely new info, but it does go into a bit more detail than what I've seen before. Nice find! :)
     
  4. Forkinator

    Forkinator Active Member

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    Yeah I should have mentioned it is not new but it seems rare. I have done alot of research on metro 2033 and last light and have not found this particular interview till now. Oles gives out Some good and interesting info though
     
  5. Alpinweiss

    Alpinweiss Active Member

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    Anyone have any update on the optimization of the game engine?
    Cannot wait til the release, need some more technical stuff to keep myself entertained lol.
     
  6. TotalAaron

    TotalAaron The Oracle of Awesome

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    that name is awsome but i do hope it looks just as good on the PS3 aswell
     
  7. Baast

    Baast Member

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    This article is from 2011 actually....

    Yeah. It's old and it does not say anything about global illumination or how tessellation is implemented in the game.
     
  8. TotalAaron

    TotalAaron The Oracle of Awesome

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    if it was from 2011 it wouldnot be able to
     
  9. Baast

    Baast Member

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    http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,852240/Metro-Last-Light-PC-aims-for-the-technology-throne-Developer-talks-about-DirectX-11-Tessellation-GPU-Physx-und-Co/News/"]http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,852240/Metro-Last-Light-PC-aims-for-the-technology-throne-Developer-talks-about-DirectX-11-Tessellation-GPU-Physx-und-Co/News/

    Yeah.
     
  10. TotalAaron

    TotalAaron The Oracle of Awesome

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    oh dear child you did not just waste your time trying to prove me wrong did you? in a small way im flatterd that you would take something so small as my comment and use up your bandwith just to prove a point! its people like you that make the internet as friendly as it is and if Global illumination is what is making you buy this game well im humbled
     
  11. Baast

    Baast Member

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    Thank you for admitting you were wrong. :)

    With regard to GI I read that they were implementing it on consoles, I'm assuming the PC SKU will sport a more refined version however but the current high end GPUs are not ready yet for this.

    Regardless, Last Light is shaping up to be one of the year's best looking game right up there with the first batch of next-gen software like Watch Dogs. If it runs as good as Metro 2033 while looking as good as it does then it's going to make a lot of PC folks support their product at full price.
     
    #11 Baast, Apr 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2013
  12. TotalAaron

    TotalAaron The Oracle of Awesome

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    i wonder if it will do a crysis where only skynet could max it out on release
     
  13. Baast

    Baast Member

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    Metro 2033 was very much like Crysis in that regard. Do you guys remember the "optimal" requirements ? A 2010 high end GC.

    And funny thing is I couldn't max the game out on my GTX470. Even without this DX11 DOF the framerate would drop in the teens. I was okay with this because the game looked incredible, especially the volumetric lighting.

    But hey, no problems whatsoever with a game pushing PCs to the limit as long as settings are there to adjust your game. :)
    Having high-end hardware does not necessarily entitle one to max out a given game. I'm 100% sure that my current rig (I7 3770, 16gb of RAM and a GTX670) won't cut it for Metro Last Light at max settings, nowhere close in fact.

    But I will gladly tone down a few settings and I hope I will achieve a playable framerate at 1080p/Very High/DX11/Physx and Tessellation enabled.
     
  14. TotalAaron

    TotalAaron The Oracle of Awesome

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    i was recently wondering about that sort of thing why can you adjust settings on PC but not on console?
     
  15. Baast

    Baast Member

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    That's a very good question and I believe it has to do with the fact that the console experience hinges around immediacy and ease of use and to some degree this is fundamentaly incompatible with having settings to adjust even if not a requisite.

    I game on consoles as well and I wouldn't have any issues with a few settings here and here that I could change, like vsync for instance. However this may be due to my PC background.

    I see more and more console gamers (but I can't believe this is the majority) complaining about framerate for instance and if they were offered the possibility of toning down graphical presets in order to achieve higher framerates would they do so ? They told me this would ultimately lead to "a destruction" of console gaming...Well isn't that interesting...

    At the end of the day I think this is something a huge majority of console gamers don't care about, and the fact that there could be graphical settings would bother them even if they wouldn't have to fiddle with them. In the mind of gamers settings are within the real of PC gaming and there are not fit for a console experience.
     
  16. TotalAaron

    TotalAaron The Oracle of Awesome

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    see i would love to turn the graphics on to max on last light for my ps3 even if i went to ten FPS whereas if i am playing COD i would like the option to be able to turn the graphics to 0.1 to get massive FPS online
     
  17. Baast

    Baast Member

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    I'm not sure many console gamers would agree. A game experience is reduced to meaninglessness if the framerate is not acceptable. You wouldn't be able to enjoy impressive tech if the game runs at 15-25 fps...

    On high-end PCs this is not a problem of course, 30fps or more + impressive graphics.

    Regarding Last Light I would have loved 4A Games to focus exclusively on the DX11 API but I hope they will get the most out of it.
     
  18. TotalAaron

    TotalAaron The Oracle of Awesome

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    KSP on my pc would disagree ;)
     
  19. Baast

    Baast Member

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    Fair enough.
     
  20. Alpinweiss

    Alpinweiss Active Member

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    I believe that 4A will deilver Metro: Last Light with much more optimization than they were able to with Metro: 2033. With better support from Deep Silver and considerable time they had for this one with more community feedback, I'm sure they'll deliver.