Communists?

I prefer Titoism(a type of socialism if I remember correctly), thats mainly because my parents lived in Yugoslavia, and the fact that Yugoslavia was the "hidden superpower".

 

When people talk about Capitalist Socialism I assume people are talking about free market (i.e.: people are allowed to trade items freely) which is a good thing. Restricting people from selling goods is immoral and restrictive, like in the USSR. Whereas capitalism, the motive is absolute profit is unsustainable. However socialism with liberty is the perfect way of going round things. Capitalism can't work with socialism, free market can. In fact, some socialists believed a truly free market couldn't exist with the exploitive system of capitalism. The best term for this is a voluntary exchange; where both buyer and seller enter willingly into a trade and both are left better off because of the trade (i.e.: the seller transferred goods into money to buy other goods, the buyer received something he needed at a fair price).

(In short)
Capitalism with Liberty: Bad
Capitalism without Liberty: Very Bad
Socialism without Liberty: Very Bad
Socialism with Liberty: Good

 

Interesting opinion, although very arguable.

 

That's life though. Every thing has a counter-point. To every argument for something, there is one against. My point about capitalism being unsustainable. At the moment it is, but some would argue it could altered to be sustainable. Then what then? My final list is my own opinion and my own opinion only. I take it as a average guess. In Western Democracies, Capitalism with Liberty is working very well, most of us earn good wages and have access to health care and can vote. But, in LEDCs, where the majority of the sweatshops are based, Capitalism with/without Liberty is not helping them, and is keeping them at lower wages (see the Value of Labour, Das Kapital, Marx). This is why I like debating because issues like these are not black and white issues. There are many different points of view.

 

I stopped reading here. From now on i don't think i'll consider your points valid.

 

I like the way you view things from both sides, exactly like you said it isn't black and white.

 

It is black&white. There are exploiters and exploited, oppressors and oppressed. Sure, there are various degrees and shades of it....but at the end of the day, it really comes to that.

 

Ok, before I make any judgements or anything I'd like to ask the Communists of this forum: Is A who provides works for B and pays B also B's oppressor?

 

Yes, because in order to provide work, one must have capital to invest. And investments always aim to one thing- profit.
Are you familiar with the concept of Plusvalue?
It means that in order to have a profit off of a labourer's work, the capitalist must have an added value to the raw material:
raw material+work= product. Product's value> raw material's value.
Hence, it is effectively exploitation of the Labourer's work.

I always find it funny how you capitalists always seem to think of work as a "concession", of which one should be grateful.

 

I am somewhere between a De Leonist and a Councilist. It is really surprising that there was a thread on this imo

 

At its heart communism is the perfect community. Everyone has work, everyone has food, everyone has what they want, everyone helps each other out and everyone goes forward. It tends to go wrong since the people leading the communist push tend to fuck it over but at its heart communism is the best choice...if done correctly.

 

Which it never has

 

Nothing is ever black and white. Few reasons:

1) Capitalism has established wealth in a few places, mainly Western Democracies, while leaving LEDCs in absolute poverty. This is bad...
2) But, capitalism has in some people's view (not mine) contributed back to the economy.
3) However, some could argue that it only feeds back into the richer, MEDC and leaves the LEDC in the dust.
etc...
It's back and forth. The main problem with communism is that it is highly theoretical. Human greed is a powerful tool, and is what drives capitalism. The bankers will stop at nothing to prevent them from losing their throne. Capitalism benefits the few at the cost of the many. As much as we'd like to avoid it, if you live in a rich Western Democracy and have access to clean water and electricity you are part of the lucky few. The majority of humanity is starving.

One last thing, you don't have to force yourself to respect me. I believe I raised some valid points. I didn't say capitalism is good, I said it is good for the W.A.S.P (White Anglo Saxon Protestant; the infamous rich white guy), but not good for everyone else.

 

100% true. Sadly we haven't seen a true communist country since as you stated above, human greed is powerful. I just wish one day that we will see a true communist country, but that will never happen. Or at least not for long. There is always that one person/group that screws everything over.

 

the dragon....

 

I am personally a Marxist, and have been since first reading the Manifesto and doing my own research.

 

I'm sorry but I can't stand Communism. At least from from what I know, Communism is against homosexuality, masturbation, sex before marriage, abortion and drugs of all kind (including caffeine, alcohol, nicotine and cannabis). I can't agree with that, not at all. No one should have the authority to rule over someone elses body, telling them what not to feel and what not to do with themselves. As long as what an individual is doing with themselves are not hurting anybody except themselves nobody should have the right to stop them.

And as far as religion goes, I personally wouldn't suffer any loss if all of them were abolished tomorrow, but again, live and let live. Extremists must of course be stopped (suicide bombers etc), but simply worshiping a god and following a set of rules made to help you live a good life and the comfort of an afterlife, I see no reason why we can't let people who feel the need have that. And please, I don't feel like going into a huge debate about religion, this is my general view of religion and it will most likely not change.

But then again, I might be dead wrong, if I am -please educate me. I love learning about political views, even if I don't agree with them.

And inb4 " If you don't like it why post?" This is a forum no? A place where people come to share ideas and discuss various topics, so that's what I'm doing.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I respect you guys's beliefs even if I don't agree with them. Like I said, live and let live.