Count to 10,000!

3781
I took my dog to this man-made lake that has a park going all the way around it. I remember having good times over there when I was fairly young. There were always ducks....Lots and lots of ducks. That's not how it is now, though. There were only about two ducks and trash littered the edges of the lake (a lot of it was inside the water). It sucked. Anyway, the funny part is: As I was driving out of the lake area, there's this outdoor swimming pool that happens to be on the way out. Cars were parked on the side of the road, making the streets quite narrow. These teenagers, in a convertible, happen to be parked there and chatting with some other people. They seemed to have obstructed my path with a bag of who-knows-what placed in the middle of the road; so I moved over to the other side and drove slowly. Behold, a trap! A green inflatable ball comes rolling out into the road from where the teenagers were. I slowed down to check if any little kids were gonna run across (don't want a whole Pet Cemetery thing to happen) but I saw none. I proceeded and the ball continued to roll my way. I thought, for a moment, that I should let it make its way to the other side, but then I figured I could mange to drive over it without running it over. Pfffft Pop!!. The ball got stuck underneath one of the tires :lol:. I continued to drive and looked through my rear-view mirror. I guy ran out to the flat green circle and picked it up. The girls in the convertible yelled and called me an "asshole." Another day well spent .

 

3782
Haha, brilliant! :lol: Sucks to hear about that park though, it has ended up like that at the coast where I live too.

 

3783
Man, there is nothing to post about on these forums any more

 

3784
How about we figure out, or perhaps just brainstorm, why it is exactly that Metro has toxic air on the surface but not underground, and how exactly it causes asphyxiation within a minute, particularly when the wind is blowing it around so much?

Actually, does anybody know precisely how the novel described it?

 

3785
Those are interesting factors that I actually haven't considered. The reason the air isn't toxic in the Metro is because, as you know, the Metro was buildt not only as a transit system but also as a nuclear shelter, so it has these air-ventilation-filter-thingies.

As for the wind on the surface, I suppose the radiation isn't caught by the wind? I also assume the radiation perhaps vaporizes the oxygen somehow, in such large ammounts? :noidea:

 

3786
Completely ignoring the old "Hollywood/writers don't know jack shit about science" canard...

Unless the book specifies a completely different effect than what the game shows, it isn't radiation. Radiation doesn't "choke" you, nor would enough radiation or irradiated particles be present to cause the kind of nearly-instant-death you see in the game. While it's true that in the weeks following a major nuclear war you would be compelled to have a particulate respirator to prevent irradiated particles (fallout, now blowing around on the ground) from entering your lungs and causing contact burns inside your body, this would not be the case 20 years later. "Hotspots" would also be comparatively rare, and likely only at epicenters of explosions.

No, if the game's depiction of suffocation matches that of the book's then the air is toxic, which is to say it is made up of chemicals or elements which, in combination or singly, prevent oxygen from getting to the blood, irritate and/or close throats, or affect the nervous system and cause respiratory failure. But in all cases these chemicals apparently do not affect eyes or skin, which removes a significant number of possibilities from the table. Furthermore, most chemicals are more dense than air, even if it's air below sea level in the metro, and would be dispersed unless uniformly distributed across the entire planet; It can't just be localized to Moscow otherwise it would have easily blown away by now.

So this removes:

- Irradiated particulates/radiation
- All chemical warfare weapons used in WWI
- Chemical spills from local industries being blown apart (not enough across the whole planet)

And it leaves:

- Some catastrophic damage to the Earth's atmosphere, which would likely have already killed everyone since that is a delicate balance

or

- Something which constantly produces a toxic/several toxic gasses, localized to Moscow, which have densities equal to air at sea level but not air below sea level (only a 6% change in density at 60 meters deep) and also happens to have no color

Since the latter is more likely, I figured the easiest way to explain it was some kind of bioweapon, a bacteria of some kind that eats "something" and somehow turns it into these toxic fumes which are constantly replenished as they blow away. The implications of this are enormous, considering the facts that:

- It could just move into the metro and produce it there
- It does not have to be beyond Moscow, meaning it's easier to live out there
- It does not stretch into the upper atmosphere, meaning you should have been able to breathe up on the Tower, or in any skyscraper
- It does not affect the mutants, which means they don't use aerobic respiration, at least the same way all mammals do

I've poured through various chemicals and elements and so far I can't find one that matches all of these characteristics at once, to say nothing of having it produced by some "natural" process.

Come on, has anyone read the books and noticed what they said about this? I'll bet for them it's just radiation with too long a life, while the game is over-exaggerated to suffocate you since nobody is waiting around for a slow death.

 

That's probably pretty much the case, yeah.
3787

 

3788
Honestly the suffocation bit makes for a compelling environment but I just can't justify it. The closest you can get is carbon monoxide, but oxidation filters would be nearly impossible for metro dwellers to reproduce; it's far more complicated than some warmed up charcoal. But that's what I get for applying a science fiction lens to a fantasy setting.

 

3789

Paging Dr. Bamul.

Hue.

 

3790

Radioactive dust. It's not technically toxic and you can scrub it off from the skin and clothes, but you can't get rid of it if you inhale it and that will kill you, which is why one needs to filter air on the surface.

@2:30

[YOUTUBE]4uYi7NUm18g[/YOUTUBE]

For the purposes of game mechanics you suffocate, because the radioactive particles are literally an invisible killer with no obvious immediate effects. "Artyom died from an acute radiation poisoning three months later because he was stupid and didn't wear a mask" message after the ending credits doesn't work that well.

Now, the dust staying as dangerous two decades later as it was the day of the bombings is another story entirely. Then again, we have an example of the Red Forest being extremely dangerous for three decades straight.

 

3791

I don't recall exactly, but I do remember - just like Komo said - that radioactive dust is a recurring theme throughout the novels, including the extended universe. In Metro 2034 or Piter (not 100% sure which one it was) they go as far as mentioning that stalkers have to tape up any breaks in their suit to reduce skin-contact with the dust to a minimum. On top of that, I'm quite sure there is mention of possible bio-weapon use during the war both in the original novels and elsewhere. There's also post-apocalyptic folklore suggesting that the shitstorm humans caused on the planet during the Great War of 2013 woke up some forces that were slumbering for ages prior to these events. Take your pick.

Glukhovsky was intentionally quite vague as to how the war was waged and what were its causes. I don't know whether it's because he lacked the knowledge to check all this (I'm nowhere near as familiar with chemicals as you are either) - plus if I remember correctly he was 18 when he started writing Metro 2033. However I do recall that he said something about how the war itself is not important but what happens after is of interest, which makes sense since the apocalypse itself is only used to create a setting where the story takes place long after. Besides, as is the case with most fiction, we have to suspend our disbelief to some extent to have a little fun. Makes for interesting discussions regardless.

One of the few occasions where that joke/expression is used in a funny way that actually makes sense. :lol:

 

3792
The Bikini Atoll, part of the Marshall Islands where the United States tested a lot of their nuclear devices, is still, apparently, inhabitable for human conditions -and it's been about 60 years since the tests. I'm not sure to what degree the dangers are at though.

As for the mutants (animals) being able to live on the surface while the humans must remain underground: it could something like the air is contaminated, with a extremely deadly pathogen, that might only affect certain species of animals; but, for sure, affects the human biological system -which would quickly lead to death. Similar to the Ebola disease. Not all animals will result with symptoms of the disease, but they can contract it and become its carrier -all while being unharmed. And you know what usually happens when humans get Ebola. In the Metro Universe, you could say that the air above is constantly producing a pathogen that is almost instantaneously deadly to humans. The only way to prevent prolonged exposure to it is to wear a gas mask that filters out the virus stuff ainkiller:

 

Problem with statements like these is that it's blanket: Dangerous 'how'? How long do you have to be there to actually suffer symptoms and/or die? It could be months, making the short jaunts on the surface in Metro quaint.

I was considering this too, but it doesn't account for the pathogen
- Not going into the Metro
- Not meaning a death sentence after some exposure to the air, since characters have those gaps all the time

Combining it with my previous concept, if the toxin-producing "stuff" collected in the lungs but could then be purged with, say, pure oxygen or something else, then it would excuse temporary exposure. How you justify it being in such random places is another matter, though it's clear the mutant flora and fauna couldn't care less either way.

... Carbon monoxide is so close... Damn you, activated charcoal!

 

3794

This is the part where I regret dropping all natural science subjects as soon as it was possible in my previous education. :lol:

 

3795
I couldn't find much information on how the Bikini Atoll is now, when it comes to concerning health. Really, all I found was that the crops, such as coconuts, still contain high level of radioactivity and that the soil is still sour. Though, I was able to find a little more information that covered how "dangerous" Bikini Atoll was 14 years after its last nuclear test. The original inhabitants moved back to the atoll, and, within a ten-year span, they all displayed high levels of radiation in their urine, etc. Children were born with some deformities and some people developed some growths. That doesn't justify why the Metro Universe is how it is, though; and, Metro 2033 takes places 20 years after a nuclear war anyway. So the radiation dangers should be long gone.....Unless several Tsar Bombs were dropped in the same location :/

Perhaps whatever pathogen exists is expelled, from the tunnels, due to whatever ambient pressure resides within the stations. Though, that doesn't really work out because there are collapsed tunnels that lead to direct exposure to the outside. And his theory is quite stupid anyway

And a going point on the second statement.

Another compound that would be worthy of noting is sulfur dioxide. It causes all the symptoms, shown in the Metro games, when one exposed to high amounts. The only problem is that sulfur dioxide is just as harmful to animals as it is to humans:

 

That would depend on how it functions. I haven't been able to find a concrete description of why it causes the inflammation that it does.

Oh yeah,

3796

 

I second this
3797

 

3798
It's obviously a substance that exists only in the mind of the authors of the metro books

 

3799

 

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