What is happening with Russia and Ukraine now?

I always was curious about what it would be like, to see two countries at war with each other but with solid internet connections on each side; to see what it would be like, to see the citizens of each side when propaganda is extremely limited in effectiveness due to them being able to access such a huge breadth of information at a moment's notice.

I know this isn't a war persay, but the Youtube comments on that video have sated my curiosity. Turns out, they would just sling insults at each other in a comments section like people do every day.

 

Either way US will support North-west and RF will support South-east, but both will pretend they don't.

 

Hopefully it doesn't fall to shit like most "Civil wars"

 

This crisis is further deteriorating relations between the EU and the USA and it's showing how NATO is just a crumbling relic of the Cold War.
Putin will have what he wants, and at his own conditions, while the West will keep threatening Russia with useless sanctions until the events in Ukraine will settle.

Putin 1 West 0

 

Yep, so far everything is pointing to this outcome. Also, I remember that some people in the comments of a Polish online tabloid were anticipating the split of Ukraine into two states (the western part under EU influence, the other under that of Russia). Although those theories are from last year and seemed very unlikely and quite ridiculous back then, they are actually much more probable now.

 

If anything the crisis is showing why NATO is still needed. Russia has not put expansionism (or the old-school term for people you did not like, imperialism) behind it and the West needs to stand together.
Useless sanctions might be a bit harsh, too. Russia gets a lot of money from the West, and cutting that source of revenue would probably hurt Russia considerably, even if they don't crumble.
What is the alternative anyway? War?

 

Both NATO and Russia are absolutely crap. I wish both of them demise, like any other state or organization that upholds capitalism. However, when speaking of sheer living standards, I'm glad I live in NATO's sphere of influence rather than Russia. But that's it - you won't see me going to war in the name of some wankers wearing suits. I would say the same if I lived under Russia's sphere of influence.

 

I can say that instead of you if you want.

 

Good man.

 

Now Strelas are being used too. It seems like a civil war brewing, and I'm not entirely sure if Putin still has control of the separatists (or they even listen to him).

 

That's what you get by using military on civvies. Reports say three helicopters are down at the time of this post:

[YOUTUBE]sOPpvn_56zE[/YOUTUBE]

They most likely used weapons they seized earlier:

[YOUTUBE]2xh-bIvko9U[/YOUTUBE]

It would be silly to assume he doesn't. He has got the strategy down right: Military action, occupation and years of martial law don't do shit (Looking at you, USA. It was fairly obvious after Korea, Vietnam and Iraq). All he has to have is the support of the civilian population and throw them a bone or two once in a while. They will even do all the heavy lifting on their own.

For example he has Kadyrov and Chechnya as a loyal vassal now by simply paying him, something two bloody wars did not and could not accomplish.

EDIT: Supposedly one of the helicopter pilots survived the attack and landed the machine intact. Ukrainian army took his weapons and flew the helicopter back leaving him behind. Mildly NSFW:

[YOUTUBE]vxQdO3T1STY[/YOUTUBE]

EDIT 2: More stuff on topic, NSFW.

Spoiler

 

The crisis is showing how the historic members of NATO (e.g. UK, Germany, Italy etc.) don't really care about eastern europe. Instead, they are favouring their EU interests over their NATO duties, which is fairly natural imo (if they cut economic ties with Russia, their economies would collapse, while Russia could simply sell its resources to other friendly States, like Khazakhstan,China and so on).
The western european countries are just getting ready to cut any military ties with the US, after the recent developments (see NSA etc.).
Meanwhile, the US are so blinded by their recently-exhumated Cold-War-Era propaganda that they keep threatening Russia ridicolously, not noticing that the EU is no longer ready to march with them like in the past 50 years.

The US, despite their bombastic claims of military power and efficiency, weren't even able to detect with their satellites 10.000 russian troops before they invaded Crimea. Currrently, their are unable to exactly determine the number of russian troops on the Ukrainian-Russian border..... this crisis is showing how unreliable the USA are as a military ally (recently, their government has announced massive cuts to the defence budget). On the other hand, Russia is showing its allies that no matter what, they'll always keep promising....if necessary, by brutally ignoring any kind of international agreement (See, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria and so on; Machiavelli would be proud).

NATO is kept alive only by the US and the former Warsaw Pact countries....despite this, the balcit republics, Poland and Moldova are being incredibly neglected, let alone Turkey, which has huge interests in the Black Sea.

Only a handful of jets have been sent as reinforcements to these States, while they weren't even consulted in the last NATO meeting.

I repeat, NATO is collapsing. This crisis show how the EU and Russia have compatible interests(half Ukraine for the european markets, half for Russia)....not the same can currently be said between the US and the EU.

Actually, i'd argue he has never had any direct control of them.
The current nationalist-controlled ukrainian government is already doing so good at feeding the separatists that he needs not do anything.

Indeed.

 

Regardless of the actual truth behind whether the US is a good ally, that's not that great of a reason. The defense spending over here is just simply astronomical compared to any other country, and in light of the massive amount of debt that our government has managed to dig itself into, cutting back on the biggest defense budget the world has ever seen isn't exactly unreasonable. I mean, we might be seeing a US with 14 more carriers than the next country, instead of 15. That's certainly something, but not exactly a game-changer.

 

I think either the Russian state will take what it wants with relatively very little bloodshed or there will be a war in Europe. The likeliness of either outcome depends largely on how much the Russian government hopes to gain from this venture and whether it will stop at Eastern Ukraine or choose to go further. So far, everything seems to be going in favour of the Russian state's interests, but the situation can change fast since stranger things have happened overnight in the course of history. At the end of all this, no matter how long it takes, even larger chunks of Eastern Europe will be either under complete Western influence or complete Russian influence. Things are becoming too unstable. Whatever the outcome, I hope as few people die in the process as possible.

 

I disagree. Modern armies have huge costs just to make a soldier operative and keep him well-fed and sheltered in action.
Costs increase exponentially when we speak of vehicles, transport, surveillance and intelligence.
That means that the cuts the US have announced will have a measurable effect: shrinking of force-projection capability, drop in quality of both training and maintainance, possibly closure of some bases in Asia and Europe.

 

Come on guys. The Ukrainian forces gave the separatists and associated covert Russian invasion forces over a week to clear out. They have met the separatists with a force that I would say is acceptable towards a visitor or foreigner who is trying to cede sovereign territory to another nation using violence, covert destabilization and massive propaganda.
Also, please note that Putin actually illegalized separatism in Russia in 2013, however he is not soon to support the separatists in a neigboring country.
The chechens were certainly not allowed to be independent.
The separatists like to say that the government in Kiev is some form of illegal neo-nazi Junta when the only difference seems to be that the (democratically elected corrupt) president is gone?
Besides, I don't take Russia's claims that "boo-hoo" civilians are getting hurt since they supported a regime (Syria) that have been continously killing their own people for over two years now.

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't make a difference in total potential strength, just that if every other nation can manage with a fraction of that budget, then a slight reduction isn't really going to change much of what gets accomplished with that army.

Believe me, I'd like to see our GI's as well prepared as possible if they're getting sent out to fight some shitty war. But I don't think that the proposed budget cuts would have a substantial negative political effect in the long run.

 

.... Machiavelli...

Since when do countries legitimate reasons to act internationally?

 

Well, since when has violent takeovers became legal?

They are not exactly far off too. Far right nationalistic parties had a large part in the government before (5 out of 20 something positions for Svoboda, for instance) and were responsible for the violent riots earlier this year. Now they are naturally in power and if they have half a brain they will refrain from doing anything drastic directly.

So... Illegal, neo-nazi, junta. Checks out.

Note the media portrayal too. Maidan rioters kill police and depose the government - rioters are heroes. New government uses weapons on separatists a month later - rioters are terrorists.

Try to look up info from all sources, preferably US, EU and RF at the same time. It will help you find seeds of truth in the bullshit they all spew.

The current UA government has proven time and again that they have no problems with using force. Here is something fresh, good enough proof? (Really NSFW)

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]BfqoWVwmP2Q[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]iFFySUXi7T4[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]IVXm9nnY-AQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

Well, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the revolutionary takeover of power in Ukraine (I generally support democratic elections) but it seems that the president was corrupt and a nepotist. I guess ousting him was fair and since a lot of the chairmen remain in parliament I would not call it a junta at all, and the neo-nazis will hopefully not get reelected in the democratic elections later this month.
Besides, I did not claim that Ukraine had not used lethal force, I only stated that it was hypocritical of Russia to denounce it since they support it themselves (and veto against intervention in the Syrian genocide).
And I have been looking at different sources - RT, Al-Jazeera, BBC, CNN, Danish national TV, VICE etc. and that is how I have come to the conclusion that I have.
Also note that this is a game of politics and I do acknowledge that USA have done similar and worse stuff than what Russia is doing, and so nobody's hands are clean here.