What is happening with Russia and Ukraine now?

UKRAINE 2015 - Treating of the prisoners of war (Warning: graphic content)

Not sure if this has been posted, I saw some of Komodo's pics of the Ukrainian commander. I don't understand the woman giving them POWs shit about "why did you come here" when it's the rebels that invaded?

 

At 3:27 - on the right, fucking child with patch of Metro 2033 on his arm, thinking he's a bloody soldier... you're no soldier kiddo, you're scum.

 

Bamul, I think we talked about this before:
- Video games are not just for children.
- He is clearly over 18 years of age, so he is not a child.
- Not all soldiers are super handsome poster boy material.
- Sparta batallion has been formed last summer, there are photographs and videos earlier in this thread. I'm sure he has seen more action than all of us combined. Sparta was the one storming the Donetsk airport btw.

Spoiler

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It wasn't until now. I refrain from posting graphic content here, as a few users have already sent me messages that they don't like that, so I try to stick to news only and SFW videos when possible. I have a backlog of a few hours worth of videos with dead people if you need that.

The description of the video is wrong though, it was filmed after DPR took the airport, on the 19th of January.

Because the rebels did not invade, perhaps? I think locals have a better idea of who invaded them and I don't think they invited the army to bomb them.

This video is from the area of Donetsk airport, these people live a few hundred meters from there. In addition, the army was sent to Donbas in May last year to stomp out protestors. There are videos earlier in this thread of the UA army shooting at civilians on the streets. The UA army have been bombing Donetsk and Luhansk for the past eight months to boot.

Spoiler

 

Not sure if we talked about it, but you misunderstood the point of my comment anyway. The fact that these people are using stuff from video games as their heraldry shows just how disconnected from reality some of them are. Real war isn't anything like a game, yet here we have someone who thought it was a good idea to take symbols from a popular Ukrainian video game and stitch them onto their uniforms - that in and of itself is childish and inconsiderate. Whoever came up with this should stick to cosplaying, because bringing attitudes from first person shooters into a real conflict is unwise to say the least. Anyway, the youth in the video looks like he could be 20-something at most or younger. As for the fact that some of their members have proven to be apt in battle, it doesn't really change anything. In war people used to prepared to do anything to avoid having to fight, whilst here we have someone who takes elements from a video game in order to portray this as something that is "cool". This is exactly the kind of attitude that gives NATO and Russia so many pawns to manipulate - kids raised on shooters.

 

Good points.

Although I disagree with some, I don't think this is a place to argue, send me a note if you want to discuss.

 

Ukrainian Parliament has approved a document designating Russia as an aggressor state, and has urged foreign states and international organizations to do the same. The parliament also supported designating the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics as terrorist organizations.

The anti-terrorist operation was going on for a year and they only name them terrorists now?

 

The Guardian: Kiev ‘punishes’ civilians in Donetsk with travel permits and drugs blockade. Ukrainians in disputed areas suffer as Kiev restricts access to food, electricity and medicines.

As the conflict in East Ukraine enters another hot phase, residents of the rebel-controlled territories say they are now stranded due to a new travel permit system introduced by Kiev, while aid organisations have warned that a medical crisis could be on the horizon as Ukrainian authorities refuse to let through vital medicines.

“Since November, a series of measures taken by the Ukrainian government has effectively cut off civilians living in rebel-controlled areas and made it increasingly difficult to provide humanitarian aid,” said a statement by Médecins sans Frontières. The organisation said it had tried to deliver medical supplies to hospitals in the frontline city of Gorlovka on two occasions last week and failed to get through.

The situation will only be exacerbated by a permit system introduced last week, requiring anyone who wants to cross the line between Ukrainian-controlled territories and the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics to apply for a special pass. Applications are only accepted in Ukrainian-held territory, with the catch-22 situation that those in rebel-held territories cannot get to the permit application centre because they need a permit to get there.

Officially, the move is to improve the security situation. Unofficially, part of the philosophy behind the move appears to be to demonstrate to those people living in rebel-held areas how miserable life under separatist rule can be, and it is also based on an assumption that most pro-Kiev people have already left the region. On Monday, Kiev announced a “state of emergency” in east Ukraine that is likely to make things tougher.

“All the people that are left on the occupied territories have made their choice, and refused to leave,” said Semyon Semenchenko, commander of the Donbass Volunteer Battalion and a newly elected Ukrainian MP, in a December television interview explaining why volunteer battalions had blocked convoys of humanitarian aid from reaching the region. “All this nonsense that old people and children are starving, it’s not true and it’s a manipulation of the facts.”

However, many of the people remaining in the rebel areas are the most vulnerable – the old and infirm and those with nowhere else to go – and Kiev’s policies risk alienating them even further from Ukraine.

While Donetsk markets are still reasonably well stocked – traders say they offer fruit and other foodstuffs to both Ukrainian and rebel soldiers as bribes to allow them through checkpoints – there are few locals with the funds to buy them. Ukraine has cut off pension and other social payments to those living in rebel areas and the rebel governments have been unable to pay more than symbolic amounts. In smaller settlements, people with limited mobility have faced difficulty in accessing foodstuffs, while many are living without proper heating or electricity for long stretches. Bank accounts have been frozen, and there is no way to access money in rebel-held areas.

At Donetsk’s drug addiction treatment facility, doctors received their last shipment of medicines from Ukraine in September. Russia has stepped into the breach, and the clinic has received insulin, painkillers and other necessary medications from the humanitarian convoys sent by Moscow. But it has not received buprenorphine or methadone, because drug-substitution therapy is illegal in Russia. Earlier this month, the remaining 52 patients prescribed buprenorphine had their medications stopped, and while there are dwindling supplies of methadone remaining, doses will be scaled down starting this week, and will run out completely on 1 March.

There are 155 patients remaining in the clinic on methadone, and 380 across the region.

“Sixty per cent of them are HIV-positive and many of them also have Hepatitis C and tuberculosis,” says Yulia Drozd, the deputy director of the Donetsk centre. “This is essentially a death sentence for them.”

The doctors at the clinic have worked six months without payment, receiving one small subsidy from the new Donetsk rebel authorities. One nurse has left after her house was destroyed, but the majority of clinic workers have stayed, despite the lack of salary. Now they have to explain to the patients that their treatment will end.

 

DPR claims that they have found documents proving that UA army intentionally attacks civilians. They say they forced a UA army company to flee from an artillery battery located near Ozeryanovka, but couldn't approach it because the area was shelled for two days. They have recovered the documents which contained artillery maps that listed civilian objects as targets and sent them up the chain for confirmation:

[YOUTUBE]Wz9ttf5vreE[/YOUTUBE]

Sounds fishy.

 

Right Sector activist on UA TV:

[YOUTUBE]qjmX4CzguT4[/YOUTUBE]

Well, good to know that not everyone is in marching around in patriotic fervor and hopefully people like that are on both sides.

 

Most probably they are using the recent events in France (as well as Pakistan and other parts of the world that don't get as much coverage in the West) to manipulate more people into believing that DNR/LNR aren't ordinary people who were alienated by the coup in Kiev and their Russian supporters but crazy raging terrorists who are hellbent on destroying Ukraine. They won't pass on this opportunity to get more support from the West whilst these topics are still hot.

 

We have an army that is there, conclusively, to maintain the state (This is the closest I can come to a simple definition). This task does obviously not differ from where in the country people are revolting. That would be a weak nation. The military has always had a presence in the area. The new players are the rebels. Yet is it the government that "comes here". That is what I don't understand. If the area had been given high levels of autonomy for years and suddenly the military shows up, she would have a point.

 

Ahh, I see your point.

This is not what she means, however. To put it into perspective:

Initial protests in early 2014 were against the Maidan in Kiev, then there were protests for federalization of Donbass after the coup (Getting more autonomy). When they were largely ignored by the local public administrations, protesters stormed the buildings. New Ukrainian government gave protesters an ultimatum to stop or else and then declared an anti-terrorist operation in early April and sent in the tanks shortly after, something Yanukovich could not do to stop the coup d'état in Kiev. Here is a link to the related post in this thread (NSFW). Around this time local police and soldiers joined the riots, the conflict escalated, and here we are.

In addition, the UA soldiers in Donbass were drafted from the Western regions of the country during previous mobilization effort, so there are no Donbass natives there.

So from the point of view of that woman, the army came to kill them.

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Meanwhile: Viktor Muzhenko, a Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said today in an interview on Ukrainian TV that there are no Russian regular armed forces soldiers in Ukraine.

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This contrasts with previous claims about thousands of killed Russian soldiers and hundreds of destroyed Russian tanks (NSFW). Whom were they killing this whole time? Who was killing them the whole time?

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Miner riots in Kiev on the 29th of January:

[YOUTUBE]wHmfzNDhZfo[/YOUTUBE]

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DPR reports that for the first time the amount of dead is higher than the amount of injured among civilian population of Donetsk and surrounding areas due to heavy shelling:

[YOUTUBE]07tR8KudbyE[/YOUTUBE]

 

An Anti-Terrorist Operation museum was opened recently in Kiev. You can find photos of the museum here.

 

Looking at the war now, I think it would be better for both parts to find a diplomatic solution. If all the Novorussians want is to have eastern Ukraine become a satellite state, that could be a solution that would make sense for both parts (unless of course the Novorussians are a vocal minority in the Donbass region, but that does not seem to be the case). That would allow western Ukraine to roll through and integrate with NATO and EU much more easily than now, where they have to take the radically different Eastern Ukrainians into perspective first. It seems there is a big cultural difference between the two. Western Ukrainians remind me a bit about Slavs, while the Eastern Ukrainians, for a large part, are literally Russians. I think this difference might be the reason I always "cheer" for the UA in the combat footage that emerges from the war. They are more like me, more relatable. I realize this is a really shitty reason for choosing a side, but kind of natural too I guess. Most people around here are just against the Russians "trying to be Soviet Union 2.0", even though it is technically a Western expansion that was causing the turmoil to begin with. Not much effort is put into showcasing the Eastern Ukrainians, it's almost looks like it's a Russian invasion against the will of the locals from the news in TV.

 

I think a major reason why there has been no dialogue (after the fact that Kiev is not interested in that) is that Ukrainians think that DPR & co. are directly responsible for the loss of Crimea.

 

I see where you stand now, thanks for sharing that.

For me personally it is a ridiculously stupid war where a brother kills a brother, because one of them got lured with promises of better life and European riches. No NATO membership because civil war, EU association is postponed by 2016, no EU membership because nobody wants one more mad hobo Greece 2.0, no germoney, no visa-free travel, salaries and pensions are cut, no child support, the country is bankrupt, thousands upon thousands of dead, nice job.

A major reason why there has been no dialogue is because UA government is being explicitly told not to stop by whoever pulls the strings. I refuse to believe they are just that stupid to send wave after wave of poorly trained conscripts on 1960s tanks to get slaughtered. UA commander in chief just said that there are no regular Russian troops in Ukraine, just how badly does the UA army suck if it's being wrecked by former miners and taxi drivers?

DPR chains have been yanked more than once before. After each big "cauldron" DPR would stop and Putin would start talking about a unified Ukraine. This is why Strelkov was asked to leave. He was too idealistic and not agreeable enough.

There is another cauldron that formed just now around Debaltsevo. Reportedly there are 6 to 12 thousands UA soldiers encircled there that were once again offered by the DPR to lay down their weapons and walk away (No reason to murder people who are pissed at their government for sending them to die). Which they most likely won't do because their command says not to.



If this shit doesn't stop after this one, then whoever holds the UA chain simply intends to kill as many Ukrainians as possible and the only chance for this to stop is for Kievans to hang their government on the facade of the Rada themselves. And with dwindling public support and rising unrest (People openly evade draft by running away to RF and assault officers who bring conscription notices), this is not unthinkable.

 

In all honesty, there isn't that much contrast between them (especially in the areas close to where the so-called ATO is taking place). These people mostly speak the same languages (even the vast majority of those who prefer Ukrainian can still speak Russian fluently, whilst in some eastern towns like Dniepropietrovsk people just tend to mix the two languages together when communicating on the streets), have the same faith, same customs, etc. There is one key difference in that a significant portion of the country speaks Russian almost exclusively. Nevertheless, the main divergence has always been in politics. And now the leaders of either side are using "cultural differences" to rally people against each other, but these differences are extremely exaggerated as the population of the region has lived together in peace for decades. More often that not, especially in 21st century Europe, it's the political and economic agendas of elites that use culture as an excuse for war rather than cultural differences sparking conflicts.

 

Oh nice. Look at what Euronews does. Russian article:



Siloviks and rebels clash, damage to the town, reporters have visited, blah blah.

Ukrainian article:



Rebels and UA army clash, damage to the town, reporters have visited, blah blah.

English article:



"Unbiased" Euronews everyone. See, this is why I've been advising you to check multiple sources on the same event. Switch a few words around and the rebels are the devil, while the government is innocent and vice versa.

 

Channel 112.ua reports that Volhynia residents sabotage mobilization efforts. They capture officers and force them to burn conscription writs:

[YOUTUBE]IXDK5TJweso[/YOUTUBE]

I only have one problem with this: If they weren't getting killed by the hundreds in the ATO, they would be perfectly content with joining the army and bombing Donbass.

 

ATO participants are demanding the land plots they were promised when they were drafted:

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Aidar battalion members are picketing outside of the Ministry of Defense in Kiev and are complaining that they are being shot at by Ukrainian artillery in Donbass. They demolished the entrance door and are blocking the road.

[YOUTUBE]8YzxdssDNTw[/YOUTUBE]

If DPR manages to eliminate the UA in the Debaltsevo cauldron, I assume Poroshenko might lose his job and his life.