What is happening with Russia and Ukraine now?

Hollande and Merkel are in Moscow with a surprise visit, presenting a new peace plan right now. Nobody invited Poroshenko, I guess.

 

Chernukhino civilian evacuation. Why are "terrorists" evacuating the citizens?:

[YOUTUBE]1pFaxn-DFqE[/YOUTUBE]

 

Just like after WWI and WII, the Westerners and the Russians are meeting to discuss the fate of every country in between? :lol:

 

Looks like it, Hollande and Merkel met Poroshenko and Kerry in Kiev (And specifically said "no comments" on that), then flew to Moscow. I guess they were just sent to relay a message.

 

Ukraine leader shows off captured Russian military IDs
So Komodo, I would appreciate if you could tell me why Fascist_Pink is wrong in this thread:
Evidence of Russian involvement in Ukraine

 

[HD photo]

TL;DR: Without an ID+dogtag pair this "evidence" only proves he took some tourists' documents.

Long version: He pretty much lies. Those are not military IDs (Except for the second one from the left). He shows foreign and domestic passports of the citizens of the Russian Federation. RF citizens of age have a military ID and a passport, while RF soldiers do not carry passports, ever. They are taken away when they enlist and are returned when they resign. Instead RF soldiers carry only identity cards of the Russian Armed Forces + dogtags that they receive when they are deployed that contain their personal ID number. He shows papers that could have been confiscated at any customs border checkpoint.

In addition, since Ukraine does not control a large portion of the border, those crossing said border to DPR and LPR won't need passports at all, since they don't need to go through checkpoints. This means that these papers came from people legally entering the country. These documents could also come from Donbass civilians with dual citizenship. Or they could be simple mockups, since Ukraine refused to provide copies of those documents when they were requested for verification.

"We have proof, but we will not show it to anyone, just trust us on this."

Spoiler

Male citizens usually carry both the passport and a military ID on them. Here are mine for reference (Potato quality):





I'm sitting in my chair in Saint-Petersburg, a thousand miles away from Ukraine, and I have the same documents he shows as proof. Well, I guess I'm a terrorist now, huh? Here is my IP - 109.205.252.218 (Other moderators can confirm), check it yourself.

Of course.

Except I won't because he is not wrong. There was never a doubt that RF assists the rebels.

From the very beginning all people who decided to fight on the rebel side were allowed to do so, even active military personnel. We are essentially the same people, we have families and friends living literally across the border, so there was no shortage of volunteers and they were granted a leave. That's where this overused joke about Russians on vacations came from. The moment Ukraine restores some ancient self propelled artillery and sends it to the frontlines, rebels get the same vehicles, brand new and infinite ammunition for them. I'm sure there are advisors there as well.

The only thing I have always said is not true is the assumption that the Russian army is fighting in Ukraine.

Do you even realize how much logistics a modern army needs? Hundreds of kilometers of supply lines, thousands of support, refueling and repair vehicles. Jets, CAS jets, transport and attack helicopters that RF never fights without. It can be easily seen from the satellites in orbit that no doubt have been trained on the region for the past year. The amount of radio traffic in clear Russian would be enormous, any radio enthusiast in Europe would be able to hear that. Pretty much every single person has a phone with a camera today, the internet was choke full of photographs and videos of Black Fleet marines or "invading green men" in Crimea (Nevermind that they were stationed there for 20 years since the fall of USSR) and yet despite the fact that UA army claims to have destroyed more tanks and SPGs that Russians ever owned there is not a single photo or a video of them from Donbass.

It's literally impossible to hide an army, and yet somehow hundreds of Russian tanks ride around two tiny provinces for a year and nobody has ever seen them. Even Ukrainian commander in chief said it's not true:

Spoiler

[YOUTUBE]cCqO2I-I6BM[/YOUTUBE]

I would imagine NATO would lose it's fucking shit if it ever saw Ivans on tanks rolling over the border, and the worst we've heard from NATO is "Amassing at the border" and "We could find no evidence". Speaking about borders:



Look at the border that Ukraine shares with RF. Why is the fighting happening only in Luhansk and Donetsk? What kind of invasion is that?

 

At this point in time, with so much evidence, it would be extremely foolish to deny the fact that Russia's support for the separatists has involved much, much, much more than just humanitarian aid. At the same time, it is quite obvious that the West has influenced Maidan, played a part in the coup and has been supporting the first and second Kiev governments ever since. Moreover, the US has been dumping its weapons aimed at Russia and torturing people within Eastern Europe, whilst some of the West-allied Eastern European countries are forming a NATO-backed international brigade against Russia. People need to stop thinking that what is happening in Ukraine is an exclusively fascist government oppressing its people or a disadvantaged second world country defending its integrity from a full-on Russian invasion - from the very beginning this has been a proxy war between NATO/EU and CIS/RF.

 

Basically what he said. Everything Bamul says is laconic.

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Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung reports that according to German security service the death toll provided by Kiev is intentionally under-reported. They presume there are at least 50000 dead, as opposed to the official number of 5000 dead.

 

Really? I'm usually under the impression that I tend to write/type too much and needlessly, but that's good.

Holy shit, if this is true...

 

Thanks to Dmytro Tymchuk, a colonel/military expert/politician, Ukraine has a local meme running since the start of the conflict - "We suffered no losses".



As was mentioned in the thread numerous times, the army would report killing hundreds of rebels and destroying dozens of tanks and other vehicles, while only getting 2-3 people dead and 5-10 injured "officially" every time, despite losing A LOT of ground. They have been chronically under reporting their dead.

UA has lost 3.5 thousand people just in the Southern Cauldron. They can look towards losing 8 more thousands in the Debaltsevo one. Add the rest of the battles and you go over the official 5000, even if you ignore rebel and civilian losses (Which must be huge, considering there is a million refugees in Russia alone).

 

Massive explosion in Donetsk. Reportedly it was a Luna-M or a Tochka missile. This is what Kiev drops on the people. After things like this even the 50000 death toll seems downplayed. Does this count as a genocide now? Even Germany and France are stepping away from it.

[YOUTUBE]bah5lt-8pKI[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]ZuQ5EPnSE_4[/YOUTUBE]

Don't go to the comment section if you value your mind. The amount of people being happy that "katsaps got fried" is over the top. Are they even human or what? If you do go there, just report them for hate speech or something. At the time of this post every video on this topic has the same trolls posting the same "dead russians lol" shit and getting hundreds of upvotes.

EDIT #1: Informator.su reports that "separatists were hit with Tochka-U".

EDIT #2: Reportedly a Donetsk chemical plant was hit.

EDIT #3: Dmitro Yarosh, Right Sector leader is congratulating UA artillery crews on a successful attack on Donetsk on his facebook page.

EDIT #4: Estimated ground zero.

 

Update: ATO command denies responsibility.

 

Nevermind.

 

This is fucked up.

 

This is off-topic, but it's unrest in the same region and could potentially spiral out of control as well (though hopefully in a completely different and perhaps positive direction if more workers from other professions join in).

Spoiler

Meanwhile in Poland (miners' strike, one of many recent ones in Śląsk, though this time things got even more heated... or colder really, considering the fact that these dogs were using water cannons in freezing temperatures and shot at the protesters).

 

Looked up some info on this:

Well it should resolve itself in a reasonable manner, as long as the government actually listens to what the people are upset about. As opposed to sending in the army. There is a live example of what happens when you deal with protesting miners this way just thirteen hundred kilometers to the east. Then again, Poland is one of the most vocal supporters of sending lethal aid to Ukraine, so it could go either way.

 

Fucking hell. The rebels are pro-Russian, the army is pro-U.S., but none of them is pro-Ukrainian.

 

A report on situation at the Southern Machine-Building Plant in Dnipropetrovsk by a member of Ukrainian parliament.

[YOUTUBE]BFYJnVRe3s8[/YOUTUBE]

"Salaries have not been paid for seven months and the accumulated salary debt is 90 million UAH ($3.5 million). Workers are resigning in droves, the factories have stopped all work. Pro-russian agents try to escalate the situation. Paid Putin's shills agitate and stage worker strikes and demonstrations to film propaganda materials for Russian television."

What is he smoking? Better yet, what is the entire parliament smoking? Whatever happens - that's Russia's fault. Electing shitty government five times in a row? That's Kremlin's scheming. EU and NATO don't want Ukraine? Those meddling kolorads! Military failures? Russia is to blame. Admitting military failures? You are an enemy of the state. Financial crisis? Dem filthy moscals. Workers resigning because they weren't paid for seven months? Goddamn katsaps are clearly at fault here!

Someone says something you don't like or asks uncomfortable questions? He is clearly a Putin's agent. Get him!

Don't believe this? A member of parliament from Poroshenko's block says on channel 112.ua that 70% of Security Service of Ukraine specialists (Think Ukrainian version of FBI) are Kremlin's shills.

[YOUTUBE]iVLzWU1YsaY[/YOUTUBE]

 

Petro Poroshenko crying (As in tears) on live TV about dead civilians in Kramatorsk:

[YOUTUBE]nVSjsKHu5P8[/YOUTUBE]

Several people were killed after Donetk was hit again today, and unlike the factory explosion on the 8th of February that was praised as a stellar job by Ukrainian artillery by Right Sector activists and UA media, this one happened because terrorists bombed themselves again.

No tears were shed about them so far:

[YOUTUBE]jM4AVEf-tA0[/YOUTUBE]

Why did Poroshenko visit Kramatorsk personally right after the bombing? Was he sure there won't be any bombings during his visit? What is the difference between innocent people being bombed by terrorists in Donetsk or Luhansk and innocent people being bombed by terrorists in Volnovakha or Kramatorsk? Why is one group worthy of crying and lugging a piece of metal from the destroyed bus around the world and another is "dead russians lol"? Why are some more valuable that the others? Why does this stuff happen right before scheduled peace talks every time?

Are not thousands of people who went to die for you in Debaltsevo worth a tear too at least? Oh wait, there is no cauldron in Debaltsevo. Ukrainian Minister of Defense Poltorak says there is no encirclement. "It is made up. We are delivering ammunition and provisions to our people in Debaltsevo and around it on schedule. Transportation, communication and cooperation are in order. The reinforcements are arriving and all is going according to plan."

 

Meanwhile there are Minsk-II peace talks in Belorussia.

Live text feed from the conference.

Ukraine has refused to accept the previous Minsk proposition a month ago, but after recent military failures and under pressure from Merkel and Hollande they are back to discuss peace. The conditions have changed however and as far as I can tell they are as follows:

- UA army has to move away from Donetsk and Luhansk past the administrative borders of the provinces.
- DMZ + multinational peacekeepers in DPR and LPR.
- Constitution reforms for federalization of Ukraine with autonomous republics of DPR and LPR as a part of the country and decentralization of government.