What is happening with Russia and Ukraine now?

If you take someone as prisoner and get the cameras rolling, it is quite obvious that they will speak whatever you want them to say. Just as Poroshenko and his piggies are releasing tons of propaganda that clearly distorts the real picture, the Novorossiya scum need to make their own material too. It is good that you are questioning the info released by Kiev, but you should also treat the news from the other side with a grain of salt.

I partially agree with your view of DNR in regards to other authoritarian organisations, but I disagree with your acceptance of the other side as simply people defending their own country. First of all, factions like Right Sector exist within the Kiev side and use terror just like DNR/LNR. Secondly, despite of what they want to believe, none of those people are going to war in their own agenda but that of their leaders - to whom they are nothing more than cannon fodder.

 

That's why there are quotation marks, Bamul, I've found the transcript and it checks out, but every single one of them keeps saying they did not use any weapons, that they were medics, drivers, engineers and they did not kill anyone (Terrorists are bombing themselves, remember?), even if their documents say otherwise. It's quite clear that they are lying in fear for their lives and will say anything.

Also I don't just "question" information if I don't like where or whom it came from. I look up sources from all sides and compare them to find the truth.

UA says they lost just a handful of people and releases a footage of soldiers running away in choke-full trucks with no weapons saying "We barely made it out" and a president saying "We didn't flee, it was a tactical retreat, Russia suffered another terrible loss by capturing this useless plot of land" while DPR releases quite literaly hours worth of footage of hundreds of surrendered soldiers and interviews with them as well as footage of countless corpses and abandoned/captured UA vehicles.

I highly doubt that they can stage or fake all of this. Building life size replicas of cities and all that.

In addition this raises further questions about regular Russian troops presense. If the rebels can post this much raw footage of the enemy, why can't Ukraine? If even NATO can only manage to provide blurry satellite images and use Ukrainian facebook posts as sources for proof of the invasion, if Ukrainian government has to resort to faking photographs for Washington to beg for weapons and money, maybe there aren't any?

 

BBC reporter Ian Pannell walks around the Donetsk Airport without a helmet. Explosions are heard in the background and the reporter ducks down several times. He says that what you hear is actually outgoing fire. Then a shell hits the building in the background and the reporters quickly run away. BBC then reports that the rebels are bombing themselves again.

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A Ukrainian volunteer brought two trophy RPG launchers for a museum in one of the schools. One of them turned out to be armed and fired. A librarian, a teacher and a janitor were injured, with janitor later dying in the hospital.

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Rebels report that they have captured a United States Humvee armored car in Debaltsevo:



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It could be seen earlier in this exerpt from UA TV program, at 6:04.

They have also captured United States counter-battery radars (4:22):

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Spoiler

Most likely it's from Afghanistan where a lot of equipment went missing in the recent years.

 

A review of the vehicles and truckloads of ammunition for tanks, artillery guns and small arms recovered from Ukrainian army positions in Debaltsevo after a "planned and organized withdrawal":

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People fighting over cooking oil that went on sale in Ukraine after the currency devalued and the prices skyrocketed. Looks like Russia in 1993:

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I hardly see how Ukrainians, as you implied, "have it worse". I'm not sure how many Ukrainians can't go to sleep at night because of the fear of shelling. I mean, those near the war zones cannot, but almost 100% of the DNR people live in constant fear...People die while they go shopping, in hospitals and while gardening.

Once again: one bigger injustice doesn't reduce another's importance. You don't go to people whose father recently died and say:"Hey, my whole family died in a car accident when i was kid. What are you crying about?" You don't go to people who don't have a job and say:"Jeez, calm down. Look at those guys in Somalia starving. You are lucky, what are you complaining about?"
Perhaps that's just me.

You have little or no understanding of the situation of Russian minorities in the post-Soviet world. You have even worse knowledge of the German society and the Islamic world if you think people joined PEgIdA and ISIS just because it "gives their life a sense".

Have you perhaps studied the history of the Soviet Union's policies reagarding Russification and ethnicities? If you had, you'd understand the situation that Russians outside of Russia have to endure after the collapse of the Soviet Union, finding themselves in countries that before had only existed virtually, creating no trouble at all. Today, Russians feel detached from their true Motherland, and have to endure the hostility of the locals because they are seen as the main supporters and henchmen of the late USSR. Did you know that Russians living in Baltic countries barely have any civil rights? Some don't even have a true citizenship, they are stateless.

So yes, the DNR people are fighting because they believe they are protecting their country, as much as the Ukrainians are.

There are many separatist movements in Europe, most notably Catalunia and Scotland, but they don't wage war against Spai nand the UK, respectively. And if you can't understand the reason why that is, that's ok, but please do not make unpondered remarks regarding the internal issues of Ukraine and other post-Soviet countries.

Regardless, i find it rather amusing how you seem to describe not "being pleased with the current situation" as a negative trait.
Hell, i'd argue almost all of Mankind's greatest conquest and technological advancements happened because someone wasn't "pleased" with the current situation.

I'm rather sure Gutenberg, Leonardo da Vinci, Tesla and others all had a huge share of innate talent, but i am also sure they invented all the great stuff they did because they thought the most widespread technology/method back in their days was fucking retarded, and decided to design something better....because they weren't "pleased" with their current situation.

 

CNN did a u-turn and called out Poroshenko's lies. The army fled, it was not an organised retreat, enormous stockpiles of weapons were abandoned and so on. They now paint UA army as weak and incapable of dealing with its Russia-backed opponent:



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Ukrainian inspectors affirmed they had not found any unusual military activity in Russia's Rostov Region on the border with Ukraine.

Turkish military experts concluded that no military activity was detected in Russia's Rostov Region on the border with Ukraine.

The inspection by Dutch military specialists revealed no military activities on the part of Russia in the Rostov region bordering Ukraine.

 

DPR reports that 3088 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed so far in Debaltsevo:

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Ukraine reports that they lost 22 people. Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko says that 80% of troops have successfully withdrawn.

 

I never said you didn't, I just felt the need to post something to balance the amount of propaganda from obvious pro-separatist channels being posted in this thread.

You should go and reread Heavygunner's comments, because you don't seem to understand what he wrote. It was quite clear that he was speaking specifically of that situation rather the conflict as a whole. He specifically posted the video of Ukrainian soldiers being dicks to prove his point.

As someone who moved to Germany only like half a year ago, I'm not sure how you can seriously tell Germans that they don't understand German society. :lol: Also, yes, it is not the only reason why people join far right organisations - but giving their life a sense of meaning and feeling as though they are doing something to change the current state of affairs are certainly important elements of that. If you're denying that, then perhaps you have a lesser understanding of this situation than Heavygunner does?

You may have studied this, but with an obvious degree of bias. If you'd have actually tried to understand this, then perhaps you'd realise that the reason why other Eastern Europeans are so keen to fight Russians is because many of them can still remember Russian tanks on the streets of their hometown. Hell, some of the oldest may still remember genocide against their people. A Russophobic Eastern Europe is not a result of Western brainwashing... it is the direct result of decades of aggressive Russian policies against its ethnic minorities and neighbours; history has recorded enough crimes committed by the Russian state against them, so the West does not need to come up with fairy tales - all they have to do to rally support behind them is remind any Eastern European nation of the shitstorms Russia has caused in their country in the 20th century.

 

Yeah you're right.

 

If you believe that's the MAIN reason people decide to join far-right groups, you have a very restricted perspective.
Yes, i have the arrogance to say that. It's not like being German automatically makes you an expert on German issues, especially if you are rather young (and i assume Heavygunner is).

What is the purpose of repeating what i just said?

 

Well, yeah,...



...and all that, but I can't help it if they are the only sources of raw footage. It's either this or nothing at all :noidea:

Ukrainian media pretty much reuses the same videos since they have next to no reporters in the ATO zone. They just mirror and retouch them so that YT won't register it as a stolen footage as a few central UA channels have already been blocked by Google for copyright infringements.

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Poroshenko giving out autographs to soldiers that have withdrawn from Debaltsevo:

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Combat footage from the Debaltsevo cleanup:

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Another overview of the abandoned encampments of the 128th brigade. Rebels report they have recovered 40 tanks and more than 120 IFVs and APCs:

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ANNA news: Ukrainian soldier is filming his group with a cellphone, discussing the encirclement on the 18th. The footage then cuts to the rebels filming the encampment after an attack with the same phone on the 19th (NSFW):

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New York Times:

 

No one said that was the main reason why people join these groups, so stop assuming so much.

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Also, this has no value really, but it made me chuckle seeing him trying to run off like the little piggy he is - as if they weren't shouting at him. :lol:]

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(Hanba, the word they are chanting, means shame in Ukrainian, Polish, Czech and maybe a bunch of other Slavic languages)

 

The National Interest: Why Ukraine Doesn't Get a Say on NATO

 

There is no evidence of Russian military hardware presence in Ukraine, French President Francois Hollande said at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

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It's not the first time it happens:

Spoiler

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And he is not the only one in the UA government who gets yelled at around the world:

Spoiler

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Oh I remember some of these too, I just thought there was an extra bit of irony there that it happened on Maidan as well.

Btw, not everyone was happy about Poroshenko's visit in Poland either...
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Although I may not be a fan of the people gathered there (some of them must be far right judging by the Serbian flag, as Polish nationalists and Serbian nationalists seem to really love each other), I just felt I might as well post this. In Russia most people probably think that everyone in Poland wants Russia nuked or some shit, just as many Poles think vice versa - all thanks to the massive quantities of propaganda produced by our countries.