[x] Nuclear Winter (Now a Ukraine fustercluck thread)

The police or the protesters?

 

Ah you're right, this thread was a bit low on radical and provocative statements.

 

That's the problem though.

As you could have noticed, the leaders of the opposition don't have any control over the mob anymore. They were talking about stopping the violence, but the people didn't care, so they haven't even shown up for the past couple days.

What I see, however, is a bunch of provocations, most likely by a third party such as neo-nazis, to give the mob an excuse for a violent takeover/make them into martyrs by the media. They can kill/injure cops, but if the police retaliates, it's going to be a shitstorm.

They also don't seem to realise that they will have to pay for ruined city and destroyed infrastructure out of their own salaries and pensions. They look like children who break their toys when they are not given a new one.

Despite having valid reasons for protesting, both sides refuse to do constructive dialogue. I'm pretty sure Europe doesn't need a bunch of violent barbarians who lose their shit over unpopular political decisions because that's exactly what EU integration will give them.

Just take a look at former soviet republics who are now "happily" in EU. All the monetary investments go back to EU in forms of fines. All factories have to close because they do not conform to EU regulations and there is no money to build the ones that do.

It makes me sad that my brothers fight over who's dick to suck, EU or RF.

EDIT: Grammar.

 

That's a fairly accurate summary of the situation in Ukraine. If they do get into the EU eventually, then the pro-Russia nationalists will start to protest about that just like in Poland. Ah, the world is such a funny place...

 

They chose to separate from the union in 1991. They've lived through shitty 90s, like us. Now they want to get into debt slavery with EU, which is essentially the same fucking thing they ran away from twenty years ago, and I can't understand whether they are just stupid and don't know what they are doing or then do know and just hate us so much they'd rather go this way.

 

Wow. Anyone seen my ten foot pole laying around? No? Alright.

 

Well, I think it may partly be similar to Poland's case - but a bit more complicated. Ukrainians are probably still bitter about the USSR. Poles, Czechs, Slovaks etc. lived in satellite states of the Soviet Union which usually functioned in a slightly less authoritarian way than the USSR itself. But Ukraine was part of the union directly. And since the Russian elite was at the top of it all, to many Ukrainians it was probably a type of Russian occupation. But Ukraine is in a strange situation, since its eastern part generally preferred Russia as an ally and wouldn't mind speaking Russian instead of Ukrainian - whilst the western part usually either wanted to model itself on Western Europe or remain completely independent (obviously, I'm generalizing here since there are exceptions everywhere - but that's more or less how it's been in terms of the majority).

And since they've been through the shitty 90s (Eastern Europe's "privatize, privatize, privatize" period), they're probably just sick of living in a poorer country. All the promises of modern capitalism, yet very little actual improvement... in some cases even deterioration. They're mostly just fed up with their own government and they've definitely noticed the short-term benefits of being a member of the EU - the money for all the nice projects, more freedom to move around between the various member states etc. Oh, and of course, they'd have to get better treatment from the West if they joined the EU because they would become part of "civilized society". The debts that would come after is something the people are either unaware of or choose to ignore on purpose because they just want to get out of the current state of affairs

To be honest, I think the main issue is that the people of Ukraine have just had enough of their own shitty government. They're sick of the poor living conditions and repression. I think that for the majority of Ukrainians (those who are taking part in the protests right now) the main goal isn't really to side with the EU or Russia, but to just get rid of the current elite. And Ukraine's current government has close ties with Russia. Distancing themselves from Russia and developing closer relations with the EU is a way to oppose the ruling politicians. Besides, the EU is a lot more crazy on regulations than, say, Russia. From the short-term point of view, the Ukrainians are probably under the impression that the EU would give them more rights. And if that would be the case, then it would probably be worth it even with the various other stupid regulations that they haven't heard about.

Anyway, if I was in Ukraine right now and (assuming that) I'd have to join either the pro-EU side or the pro-Russia side, then I'd probably go with the former by the stupid "lesser evil" idea. Every single form of government in the world controlled from the top down has been made up of wankers, but Russia has a particularly bad history of especially oppressing rulers. I have no anti-Russian sentiment unlike many Poles, and I find Russia an interesting place and Russians an interesting people - but your government has always been exceptionally shit.

EDIT: Crossed out the first sentence since I'm really contradicting myself quite a bit later on; it is very different to Poland's case.

 

Interesting read.

 

The protesters were burning a shitton of tires on the livestreams last time I checked, so I assume it is.

 

Yep.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Those are some pretty sweet pictures I must say.

 

So rangers are using Berkut "Gorod" camo:

 

Not pictured is a wild pack of Nosalises.

Don't mind them, just Rangers doing their civic duty.

 

Pic 5 is preety cool

 

I really liked the one with the guy in a red jacket with a helmet and a backpack sitting on top of someplace with a huge shitton of those police-people down there, in a row.
Also, wait wat. The police throws homemade molotovs?
Also, that guy playing the sax must be the most epic guy in the world!
Also, they're celebrating with fireworks?
Also, what the heck is this all about anyway? And where is it? [Slow]

 

Komo and Bamul both gave good descriptions on the previous page.

Here's a post I found also covering it with more kewl pics and cited sources.

I also found this post from a protestor talking about some of the major motivations behind the protests.

 

I always thought they were using OMON's camo (since the game takes place in Russia), but I guess it makes no difference since Berkut uses practically the same one... and both of these organizations are almost the same thing.

Nice find, Potarto! Both of these are informative and fairly objective, though the second one is written from a quite naive point of view. It suggests that these things don't happen in the EU, yet they very much do - it's just that the spotlight of the recent events in Ukraine (and their frequency) makes such an impression. Also, it's important to remember that it's not just honest, hardworking and frustrated people that take part in the protests in Ukraine - but fascist scum also. Here is a link to a very brief, yet informative "article" about it: http://imgur.com/a/1ghhi/ I think the images shown speak for themselves, the descriptions are just for those who are living in blissful ignorance.

EDIT: I've just realized that this is the third off-topic page in this thread. :lol: I don't really mind off-topic discussions since they are often very interesting, but I was wondering if the mods could turn pages 6, 7 and 8 of this thread into a completely new one about the protests in Ukraine. I think this discussion has gotten large and significant enough to warrant a thread of its own.