[x] Nuclear Winter (Now a Ukraine fustercluck thread)

Yep, Komodo is absolutely right. Pretty much everything is politicized there now - whether it's the pro-Russia politicians, the pro-EU "leaders", the naive liberals or the fascists. hwell:

 

Not saying the cop who was beaten should've done this, but if I was that cop who had been beaten by a few guys and barely gotten away, and if I had a pistol, I would've been so damn angry that I'd have pulled it out and shot every single one of them. Probably not killed them, but I'd be pissed enough to shoot them. The Riot-Police probably don't have guns there, though. I dunno. At least not the guys walking up with batons and shields.

Interesting find, I've never really seen any videos from riots that have been as revealing and direct as this. Also, that last video Komodo posted could've been anyone anywhere in Bosnia, just shooting out at the forest. Not saying it is, but it could easily be

Am I a horrible person by not being affected emotionally or in any other way, by this? I mean, yeah, it's a shame that people are fighting and someone's getting injured or killed, and the city being destroyed, etc etc. But I know not a single person in Bosnia, and I've barely even heard of the country and it doesn't affect me or my life to the slightest in any way, really <.>

 

We're talking about Ukraine in this thread, Skaara.

I don't think you would have had the time to stand up, take out your gun and shoot if you're being beaten by an angry mob. This ain't a video game - it's real life. And I've seen plenty of videos like this from other events around the world... does it surprise you that among the casualties from these recent happenings in Ukraine are also reporters from abroad?

I don't know, I guess maybe you're just a bit desensitized to human suffering, which I would say isn't a good thing (but it's sort of normal nowadays due to the sheer amount of violence we see in the media - both factual and fictitious). Or perhaps I'm more affected by it because I feel I have closer cultural ties with these people? I don't know, maybe both of these reasons are a valid explanation.

As for news regarding Ukraine: well, it seems that they are planning to form a new government and go back to the constitution from 2004. However, these are just talks and shootouts are still happening in the streets of Kiev, so we'll see how much of the proposed actions actually happen. Maybe we'll even see the division of Ukraine into several states of different allegiances, as unlikely as that may seem.

 

OH, RIGHT.... Sorry, lol. Mixed this up with the Bosnia-thread..

I meant after managing to break out from the crowd, just like that policeman did.

But nope, it doesn't surprise me to see that someone has video-taped and shared this. I'm just saying I'm not really used to seeing such stuff, so I find this really interesting to watch. I'm just wondering what's going on in those people's heads; if they're actually consciously thinking that they're fighting the system for the people of the country in order to make it a better place to live, or if they're just hooligans who wants to see bloodshed now that they have the chance. I guess it's a mix of both, who knows.

That's what I'm thinking too
I guess all the violence I've seen and performed in movies and video games seems very real, and these riots is nothing but fighting, compared to it. :noidea:

 

More news from Ukraine: apparently they are going to release Yulia Tymoshenko from prison.

 

[YOUTUBE]?v=kg9fjOfPZyE[/YOUTUBE]

 

In essence, today Russia has invaded Crimea...

 

Now, I'm not completely in on eastern European politics but aren't the Russians not completely in the wrong as the Ukrainians did threaten sevastapol and also isn't half of Ukraine a part of Russia which Gorbachev gave to Ukraine

 

Not really, no shots were fired.



Black Fleet base is in Sevastopol. Marines from it waltzed into the Sevastopol airport and blocked it off without any violence (So far). A few Il-76 planes have already arrived.

People in the cities raising Russian flags are either the local militia or Kadyrov's forces from Chechnya (Which we don't really have control over) who expressed the plans to support ethnic Russians of Crimea recently.

Crimea has already politely declined and said they don't need any help in maintaining the independence.

The basic idea behind this, as far as I can tell, it to force temp Ukraine government to make a move (Or not). Do nothing and accept de facto Russian control of the Crimea and major loss of sovereignty/prestige or send military forces into Crimea and risk 150.000 Russian soldiers crossing the border from the East.

They either lose Crimea or potentially half of Ukraine.

 

Yep, I know - I just couldn't be bothered to list the details and wanted to make it sound more dramatic. But the part where you say: "The basic idea behind this, as far as I can tell, it to force temp Ukraine government to make a move (Or not). Do nothing and accept de facto Russian control of the Crimea and major loss of sovereignty/prestige or send military forces into Crimea and risk 150.000 Russian soldiers crossing the border from the East" is probably one of the better descriptions of the situation that I've read online from a user post.

Nevertheless, it is technically an invasion - peaceful or not. The Russian army is in Crimea without the permission of the Ukrainian state, whilst people are taking down Ukrainian flags and sticking up Russian ones instead. Whether this will spark a war or not is a different matter entirely... I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

But mah sovereignty... Crimea republic is an autonomy with its own government.

Even if it is an invasion (I'm pretty sure you can't invade a country you are already stationed in), its an invasion of Crimea Republic, not Ukraine.

EDIT: You call this an invasion? This is an invasion (2:06):

[youtube]AeenAfQ15yg#t=126[/youtube]

 

You're right, but everything is still handled in accordance with Ukrainian law... if you're independent, then why obey the laws of another state? Russia puts their army there, then they are really invading only Crimea - but they're breaking the laws of Ukraine also. So... yeah, I guess you're more right than I am here, but this can easily be a first step in an invasion of Ukraine if things go that way.

 

something i dont understand, who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in this? Russia is invading or saving?

 

This is real life - there are no good or bad guys here, I'm afraid. I guess it just highlights how shit the idea of states and centralized, top-down governing is... and of how little value human life is to politicians and leaders. However, speaking purely strategically, Russia is certainly the aggressor here.

 

Nobody is.

- Russia wants an ally so they will do a lot to control Ukraine.
- EU wants to hurt Russia so they will take Ukraine in even though it's essentially a crazed hobo that will always beg for money.
- Ukrainian people have a shitty life and hope that joining EU will magically solve all their problems (It won't, but it might be better in the long run).

USA might be the closest one to being the Evil guy here, since their Ministry of Foreign Affairs were the ones funding riots.

Same shit as in 2008.

 

Why does Russia want an ally?

 

Everyone wants allies.

The thing is, if a country is not an ally of one force, it's an ally of another. They can't remain independent forever, so everyone wants to have more allies so that the enemies don't have any.

 

If you're looking for an overly simplified summary, then let's just say that all of our governments are evil shits and us normal citizens are the good guys just trying to make it through this mess. (though the truth is obviously much more complicated)

What? I didn't realize we had any involvement, all I can find is stuff with our Politicians waving their dicks at Russia's involvement.